Religion, SF, and Other Speculative Fictions.


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Perfection

Posted by xJane on September 20th, 2011 at 12:16 pm · 4 Comments

The subject of Perfection In Heaven has been crossing my path recently, most likely via a podcast (Atheists Talk (iTunes link) by Minnesota Atheists, Ask an Atheist, the Atheist Community of Austin‘s Atheist Experience or Non-Prophets (iTunes link), or FFRF‘s Freethought Radio).
This is the proposition that

(a) we are fallen, imperfect beings unworthy of God’s love,
(b) if we accept [insert appropriate deity of choice], we will be given God’s grace despite our unworthiness, and
(c) get into heaven, where
(d) we will become perfect beings.

Of course, proposition (d) is in direct contradiction with proposition (a). That is, if we are fundamentally flawed, then when we become perfected, we will not be ourselves. So the “person” who gets to heaven is not the person we were—it is not us.

I had a dream last night that involved my father, mother, and I. We were going on vacation. And when I woke up, I realized that neither of them acted nor looked like my parents…but in the dream (as it is with dreams), they were my parents. With all that that entailed—except for the few things that were left out to comport with the dream-parents.

So I got to thinking: maybe that’s what it’s like in heaven. We’re just duped into thinking that the people around us are the people we think they are and, similarly, that we are the person we think we were. Memories get conveniently changed.

In any case, it’s a strange proposition that reminded me both how strange dreams are and how strange religion is. And how closely they resemble each other.

Tags: Religion

4 responses so far ↓

  • 1 galen dara // Sep 25, 2011 at 9:05 pm

    “how strange dreams are and how strange religion is. And how closely they resemble each other.”

    wow. exactly. thank you xjane :)

  • 2 Jonathan // Sep 27, 2011 at 6:51 am

    xJane!
    It has been so long since I’ve commented here It’s a very good question you and the atheist organizations you mention above raise!

    I like how Romans 7 puts in – the person that has dedicated their life to following truth realizes that there are parts of their personality they don’t like – tendencies like lust, greed, excessive anger, pride, selfishness, impatience, etc. that they nonetheless don’t seem to have the power to completely overcome. Once committed to truth, there is a strong desire born in you that can never be satisfied in this life – I assure you – to be the person you really desire to be. I hope my writing reflects that principle of mine.

    Heaven is the place where you will have the freedom to be who you really are – who you’ve always desired to be – a person who loves perfectly, who cares about others perfectly, who is not proud, but humble.

    I know this can get semantically foggy – but let me try – I think the “real” you is who in your deepest heart you desire to be. I know that my selfish nature is kind of “me” too, in that I give in to it, but it does not define who I really am, any more than tripping on a root against my desire to not do so defines the true me as a “faller” or something like that.

    We fail to live up to that standard in this life and are discouraged by that – but our desire to be perfect is in some way a pointer to a place or time when we can be perfect. The design of a human being seems to be that a desire has an object of fulfillment. (C.S. Lewis’ argument from desire) in both a physical and a spiritual sense. (these two seem like a false dichotomy to me – thank you, Plato).

    Our frustration for not attaining to who we were always meant to be is in some way like a signpost pointing away from where you are now in an indiscriminate direction. I think following the trail away from now ultimately leads a person to realize that there is no home in this life for certain desires – they cannot be met here and were never intended nor designed to be. You are trying to satisfy in this life what was meant to be consummated in the next.

    Not being able to be your true self here is an indication that ultimately you belong somewhere else – the place and time where these and many other desires are met is a place I think of as “home” – ultimately still on earth, I believe, but a newly remade one.

    You can’t ultimately realize you true self here – that an adventure for the next one with challenges there that will require it. (Think: the Matrix).

    Yes – Heaven is not singing on clouds and playing harps. It is when were are reborn into beings we were really meant to be – our fullest potential is at our disposal for purposes and challenges that cannot even be imagined.

    Until then, I struggle with hope against my worst enemy – not other people or forces, but my own selfish nature, the leading cause of most unhappiness in my life (and a good chunk in the lives of people I am closest to who have to bear with me). I really look forward to that day when this struggle is over.

    I hope that helps to answer that question, at least from my perspective :)

  • 3 Jonathan // Sep 27, 2011 at 7:15 am

    Sadly, these groups read the bible wrong – I know the FFRE is headed by Dan Barker, an ex-pastor who is pretty darn good, but usually we just have proof-texting and quoting out of context.

    Point A is not correct from a Christian perspective -

    “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only son…” We are all loved by God, but the ball’s in our court to reject or embrace him or not.

    Point B is also un-Christian.
    “Unworthy” in a biblical sense means we don’t have the right to demand entrance into heaven because we want to – any more than a guy off the street will be allowed into my house just because he wants to. “Worthiness” just means that their are ground rules for entrance. The ground rule is simple – you have to know God. Lots of Christians don’t know God, according to Jesus himself. I did a Hebrew word study of what it means to “know” God as a new covenant requirement – it means to have a personal relationship with him. That’s how you get into his house (i.e. go to Heaven). Because you get to know him and want to be with him. Sounds simple enough.

    On the flip side, if you don’t like him and don’t want anything to do with him, he doesn’t force you to live with him for eternity. That would be mean.

  • 4 lama21 // Nov 19, 2011 at 3:52 pm

    neat! dinner won’t be ready until 10 minutes from now.

    well, ms. xjane – i hope i look like my wife. she’s the best part of me. i think heaven is her.

    yes, she’s got one arm missing. yes, she farts a lot in bed. yes, she’s only got a bachelor’s degree (back in 89 in literature). yes, she gets too busy for me. yes, she’s kinda fat and i wish she didn’t cut her long, brown hair.

    but, heaven is her.

    i think people are sad for only two reasons:
    1. people hurt them.
    2. people hurt themselves by making dumb ass choices (thinking time will spare them).

    heaven is my wife kicking my ass and keeping me out of trouble. she does this because she loves me.

    that is heaven.

    wow – i sound like a soapbox, but typing my thoughts out is making me feel smarter. i’m not too book smart.

    another good post, mr. john.

    back to dinner.

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