3 responses so far ↓

• 1 Chandelle // Jun 27, 2009 at 9:18 am

  I read most of the links and this sounds very familiar. I ran into one of these extremists in the workplace. I had no idea that her delusional state was actually part of a “movement.”

• 2 Brian // Jun 28, 2009 at 6:34 am

  Wow…I hadn’t heard about these guys before. Not sure what to say about this particular brand of crazy. Maybe: “They killed Mother Theresa! You bastards!”

  Actually, what I really want to say is this sounds like it would make a great story…and I’ve already read it! The whole “Queen of Heaven” Everest prayer war reminds me very strongly of a novel I read not two months ago, “Declare” by Tim Powers. It’s a sci-fi-ish spy thriller style book which features a powerful and malignant female demonic spirit ruling over a major world power, and a climactic pseudo-spiritual battle atop a world famous mountain. It starts slow, but builds up the tension and weirdness quite steadily, if you like that kind of thing.

  On a more serious note, I’m not sure I share the blogger’s concern about groups like these. I only read about half of the Wild Hunt posts and the links they lead to (Dammit John, I’m a commenter, not a researcher!), and I admit that there are some troubling implications about such loony groups seeking political influence, but their very loonyness seems to be a damper on how much influence they can have. (Besides, these guys aren’t nearly as good at this as the Scientologists.) It’s good for bloggers (though it’d be nice if the media were the ones finding these things out first) to make connections public in a way so that people can ask “How close are you to this supporting group XYZ that you spoke at?”. And if the Republicans add nuking Tibet to their platform, I will happily join the tinfoil hat brigade and eat my words!

• 3 Jonathan Dorsey // Jun 29, 2009 at 2:04 pm

  Quick insider perspective to those outside:

  This is actually an area of keen interest for me. While at seminary, I did lot of scholarly study of the three “waves”, and actually have a lot to contribute on the subject.

  Out of the three waves, the third one was the most mild and rational. I actually read two of Wagner’s books on the subject, and by others besides. Oddly enough, all of my research and reading on that section had no mention of vilifying the Catholic church or other denominations, only a criticism that they were missing the “spice” of Christianity. They actually went so far as to disassociate themselves with wierd movements such as the “Torento Blessing,” which notable authors within that movement warned that might be demonically influenced rather than inspired by God. Other things that have come under harsh criticism within the movement is the battle of territorial “spirits” – this is probably nothing more than an experimental idea that is showing itself over the years to be a questionable ministry and one without any biblical precedence. Prophecy is also an area that has come under heavy criticism. Like other wild experiments, this was tried and discovered to be quite flawed in may forms based on years of negative experiences of it within the movement. More often now, it is relegated not to a prediction of future events or of personal divination (no different than witchcraft), but to a word of encouragement. BTW, never does any modern prophet trump scriptural prophecy, which is a basic tenant of Christianty 101. Any group that does so is no longer Christian or can call themselves such (although they probably do anyway, no big deal

  I must say as an insider that this movement is prone to extremes like any other worldview sub-culture. A lot was said in the links provided about spiritual warfare and the growing catalog of demonic spirits that are identified with anyone in opposition to the movement is extreme and is a view not shared by anyone I know within the movement. Most of the ones I know are just like myself – very logical and careful about what we believe. I would consider what was told in these links not at all mainstream Evangelical Charasmaticism, but rather an extremist variant that is too small to be a political threat. Even though Wagner is assumed to be the head of this movement, he is not, and we do not look to him for our marching orders or anything like that . A vast majority of us don’t even know who he is. I haven’t been following his latest activity, so I need to look into that a bit more before I would say that the links given are misinformed about him. All the research I did contradicted the information in these links, so I’m a bit skeptical.

  Overall though, as an insider that has been watching this movement carefully and critically, I don’t think there is a need to worry. There will always be extremists (not unlike the Sam Harris’ of the atheist worldview) that are around, but the majority are rational moderate folks like myself representing the Charismatic movement, not unlike all/most readers here who represent the moderate camp in the atheist worldview.

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