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	<title>Comments on: Acknowledging Death in Death</title>
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	<link>http://www.mindonfire.com/2009/06/23/acknowledging-death-in-death/</link>
	<description>Religion, SF, and Other Speculative Fictions.</description>
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		<title>By: Sunday in Outer Blogness: Back in the U.S.A. Edition! &#124; Main Street Plaza</title>
		<link>http://www.mindonfire.com/2009/06/23/acknowledging-death-in-death/comment-page-1/#comment-23908</link>
		<dc:creator>Sunday in Outer Blogness: Back in the U.S.A. Edition! &#124; Main Street Plaza</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Jun 2009 14:42:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mindonfire.com/2009/06/23/acknowledging-death-in-death/#comment-23908</guid>
		<description>[...] There were a number of interesting philosophical discussions this week. I especially liked Hypatia&#8217;s story of coming out as a non-believer to her TBM brother (and following up with a friendly discussion of logical fallacies). Andrew S. (+ Seth R.) makes an interesting point that the question of God&#8217;s existence is a separate (and less useful) question than the question of God&#8217;s relevance. The folks at Unscrewing the Inscrutable ask what is an &#8220;avowed atheist&#8221; anyway? (though, unfortunately, the discussion degenerates into the usual debate over whether atheism is a religion). And xJane writes about the importance of acknowledging death in death. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] There were a number of interesting philosophical discussions this week. I especially liked Hypatia&#8217;s story of coming out as a non-believer to her TBM brother (and following up with a friendly discussion of logical fallacies). Andrew S. (+ Seth R.) makes an interesting point that the question of God&#8217;s existence is a separate (and less useful) question than the question of God&#8217;s relevance. The folks at Unscrewing the Inscrutable ask what is an &#8220;avowed atheist&#8221; anyway? (though, unfortunately, the discussion degenerates into the usual debate over whether atheism is a religion). And xJane writes about the importance of acknowledging death in death. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Bob</title>
		<link>http://www.mindonfire.com/2009/06/23/acknowledging-death-in-death/comment-page-1/#comment-23902</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Jun 2009 16:09:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mindonfire.com/2009/06/23/acknowledging-death-in-death/#comment-23902</guid>
		<description>I am a “Taking Chance “ kinda guy. ( If you saw that program featured on HBO).
For most, a life is hard. I do believe in putting as must joy and laughter in it as possible. But again, for most, at the end of that life, is it’s funeral.  It may  be the only time that lived life will be honored, respected, and morned for it&#039;s ending. That’s my view.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am a “Taking Chance “ kinda guy. ( If you saw that program featured on HBO).<br />
For most, a life is hard. I do believe in putting as must joy and laughter in it as possible. But again, for most, at the end of that life, is it’s funeral.  It may  be the only time that lived life will be honored, respected, and morned for it&#8217;s ending. That’s my view.</p>
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		<title>By: Cobwebs</title>
		<link>http://www.mindonfire.com/2009/06/23/acknowledging-death-in-death/comment-page-1/#comment-23900</link>
		<dc:creator>Cobwebs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Jun 2009 20:35:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mindonfire.com/2009/06/23/acknowledging-death-in-death/#comment-23900</guid>
		<description>I think that Western culture&#039;s dissociation from death is a fairly recent phenomenon.  The mortality rate, especially for children, used to be a lot higher, and death was something that tended to happen at home instead of a hospital.  Now it&#039;s sanitized and segregated, and I think it gives us an unhealthy view of the whole thing.

I always liked the Victorians&#039; &quot;memento mori&quot; tradition, which wasn&#039;t really an embrace of death so much as an acceptance of it.  I think that&#039;s a healthy attitude: Everybody&#039;s gotta go some time, you may as well get comfortable with the idea.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think that Western culture&#8217;s dissociation from death is a fairly recent phenomenon.  The mortality rate, especially for children, used to be a lot higher, and death was something that tended to happen at home instead of a hospital.  Now it&#8217;s sanitized and segregated, and I think it gives us an unhealthy view of the whole thing.</p>
<p>I always liked the Victorians&#8217; &#8220;memento mori&#8221; tradition, which wasn&#8217;t really an embrace of death so much as an acceptance of it.  I think that&#8217;s a healthy attitude: Everybody&#8217;s gotta go some time, you may as well get comfortable with the idea.</p>
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		<title>By: xJane</title>
		<link>http://www.mindonfire.com/2009/06/23/acknowledging-death-in-death/comment-page-1/#comment-23899</link>
		<dc:creator>xJane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Jun 2009 19:05:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mindonfire.com/2009/06/23/acknowledging-death-in-death/#comment-23899</guid>
		<description>Bob—I agree as well that a death should occasion mourning. My mother didn&#039;t want anyone wearing black, because it should be a celebration that he&#039;s in heaven now. I get that, but it felt like a denial of the pain I felt at his loss. I also get the Irish tradition of lets-drink-and-celebrate-and-remember, which I think would be preferable to Thou Shalt Not Be Sad.

Chandelle—the funeral industry really is a racket. One of my sisters went with mom &amp; they started at the cheapest coffin and went up until they found one they liked (still close to the bottom of the list). It was very tasteful, and for something that &lt;i&gt;got covered in a flag, anyway&lt;/i&gt; even the price they ended up paying seemed insanity to me.

I&#039;ve told DH that, when I&#039;m dead, he can do whatever he wants with me. I&#039;m certainly not going to be around to care. But what I&#039;d like is something that doesn&#039;t disrupt the natural process of returning to the earth. He&#039;s said he wants to plant a tree over me; I could go with that. Or a pine box, or a linen shroud, or cremation, or freezing-and-blowing up. Again, not gonna be here for it. But I really &lt;i&gt;don&#039;t&lt;/i&gt; want a traditional formaldehyde-and-coffin funeral.

And, I want a Speaking. I&#039;ve already told my cousin that she is to say something along the lines of, &quot;She could be a real bitch sometimes, but I loved her anyway,&quot; as long as what she decides on doesn&#039;t make me out to be something I wasn&#039;t. I even told one of my sisters that, if she feels moved to speak at my funeral, she should tell the truth. She and I had a conversation about how weird it was to hear everyone make dad out to be some kind of saint. I&#039;m glad it wasn&#039;t just me who felt that way.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bob—I agree as well that a death should occasion mourning. My mother didn&#8217;t want anyone wearing black, because it should be a celebration that he&#8217;s in heaven now. I get that, but it felt like a denial of the pain I felt at his loss. I also get the Irish tradition of lets-drink-and-celebrate-and-remember, which I think would be preferable to Thou Shalt Not Be Sad.</p>
<p>Chandelle—the funeral industry really is a racket. One of my sisters went with mom &#038; they started at the cheapest coffin and went up until they found one they liked (still close to the bottom of the list). It was very tasteful, and for something that <i>got covered in a flag, anyway</i> even the price they ended up paying seemed insanity to me.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve told DH that, when I&#8217;m dead, he can do whatever he wants with me. I&#8217;m certainly not going to be around to care. But what I&#8217;d like is something that doesn&#8217;t disrupt the natural process of returning to the earth. He&#8217;s said he wants to plant a tree over me; I could go with that. Or a pine box, or a linen shroud, or cremation, or freezing-and-blowing up. Again, not gonna be here for it. But I really <i>don&#8217;t</i> want a traditional formaldehyde-and-coffin funeral.</p>
<p>And, I want a Speaking. I&#8217;ve already told my cousin that she is to say something along the lines of, &#8220;She could be a real bitch sometimes, but I loved her anyway,&#8221; as long as what she decides on doesn&#8217;t make me out to be something I wasn&#8217;t. I even told one of my sisters that, if she feels moved to speak at my funeral, she should tell the truth. She and I had a conversation about how weird it was to hear everyone make dad out to be some kind of saint. I&#8217;m glad it wasn&#8217;t just me who felt that way.</p>
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		<title>By: Chandelle</title>
		<link>http://www.mindonfire.com/2009/06/23/acknowledging-death-in-death/comment-page-1/#comment-23898</link>
		<dc:creator>Chandelle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Jun 2009 05:36:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mindonfire.com/2009/06/23/acknowledging-death-in-death/#comment-23898</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve always had a fascination with dead bodies and from the age of 9 I thought playing with them all the time would be a fantastic profession.  So after high school I went into a pre-med program with the intention of becoming a coroner.  In college I loved to observe and participate in autopsies and I still believe that I could have been very happy in that line of work.  It&#039;s the human body in all its stages, conception through decay, that is fascinating to me.  

But attending classes in the local mortuary was the opposite of fun and exciting.  I could not believe what sort of degradations were inflicted upon a human body to make it look lively and sane.  Almost nobody has any idea what happens in mortuaries, with good reason.  Paul McCartney&#039;s famous phrase about slaughterhouses with glass walls could easily be applied to death care.  And the mortician profession is an incredible racket.  

Observing the standard operations in  a mortuary convinced me that I would never want those things done to my body.  Not because of my attachment to my body, but because I don&#039;t want to contribute to the pathology of our culture&#039;s denial of death.  For a long time I thought I would just be cremated, but now I&#039;d prefer to be wrapped in a muslin sack and tossed in the ground.  Let the animals eat me.  Screw it.  I&#039;m a part of the earth and I&#039;d like to feed it when I die.

Since adopting Buddhist practice I have enjoyed death meditations - bringing awareness to my impending death, playing it out in my mind.  It causes me to look really hard at the way I&#039;m spending my days, and how I treat my loved ones, and the things I say and waste.  

Thanks for this post, xJane.  I hope you have support through your grief.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve always had a fascination with dead bodies and from the age of 9 I thought playing with them all the time would be a fantastic profession.  So after high school I went into a pre-med program with the intention of becoming a coroner.  In college I loved to observe and participate in autopsies and I still believe that I could have been very happy in that line of work.  It&#8217;s the human body in all its stages, conception through decay, that is fascinating to me.  </p>
<p>But attending classes in the local mortuary was the opposite of fun and exciting.  I could not believe what sort of degradations were inflicted upon a human body to make it look lively and sane.  Almost nobody has any idea what happens in mortuaries, with good reason.  Paul McCartney&#8217;s famous phrase about slaughterhouses with glass walls could easily be applied to death care.  And the mortician profession is an incredible racket.  </p>
<p>Observing the standard operations in  a mortuary convinced me that I would never want those things done to my body.  Not because of my attachment to my body, but because I don&#8217;t want to contribute to the pathology of our culture&#8217;s denial of death.  For a long time I thought I would just be cremated, but now I&#8217;d prefer to be wrapped in a muslin sack and tossed in the ground.  Let the animals eat me.  Screw it.  I&#8217;m a part of the earth and I&#8217;d like to feed it when I die.</p>
<p>Since adopting Buddhist practice I have enjoyed death meditations &#8211; bringing awareness to my impending death, playing it out in my mind.  It causes me to look really hard at the way I&#8217;m spending my days, and how I treat my loved ones, and the things I say and waste.  </p>
<p>Thanks for this post, xJane.  I hope you have support through your grief.</p>
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		<title>By: Shelly</title>
		<link>http://www.mindonfire.com/2009/06/23/acknowledging-death-in-death/comment-page-1/#comment-23897</link>
		<dc:creator>Shelly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Jun 2009 04:10:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mindonfire.com/2009/06/23/acknowledging-death-in-death/#comment-23897</guid>
		<description>For Christmas my MIL gave me a book on death by Mary Roach  called Stiff.  Quite aptly (which is why I suppose she&#039;s the author) the subtitle was &quot;the curious lives of human cadavers&quot;.  The book sat on my shelf for a good three months before I was brave enough to pick it up.  

See, I am deathly afraid of death.  So staring at it right up close through the &quot;life&quot; of a cadaver wasn&#039;t my bag.  But the book made me confront some of my most fearful issues and arrive on the other side of the cover with such a better perspective on life and death.  

I&#039;m with you xJane.  I think we need more reality in death.  If people are sad, then let them be sad.  If people want to laugh and cry - all at the same time.  So be it.  But make it true to the person who died.  Make it a celebration of the life they had, the life they no longer had, and the glorious cycle.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For Christmas my MIL gave me a book on death by Mary Roach  called Stiff.  Quite aptly (which is why I suppose she&#8217;s the author) the subtitle was &#8220;the curious lives of human cadavers&#8221;.  The book sat on my shelf for a good three months before I was brave enough to pick it up.  </p>
<p>See, I am deathly afraid of death.  So staring at it right up close through the &#8220;life&#8221; of a cadaver wasn&#8217;t my bag.  But the book made me confront some of my most fearful issues and arrive on the other side of the cover with such a better perspective on life and death.  </p>
<p>I&#8217;m with you xJane.  I think we need more reality in death.  If people are sad, then let them be sad.  If people want to laugh and cry &#8211; all at the same time.  So be it.  But make it true to the person who died.  Make it a celebration of the life they had, the life they no longer had, and the glorious cycle.</p>
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		<title>By: Numi</title>
		<link>http://www.mindonfire.com/2009/06/23/acknowledging-death-in-death/comment-page-1/#comment-23896</link>
		<dc:creator>Numi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Jun 2009 02:04:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mindonfire.com/2009/06/23/acknowledging-death-in-death/#comment-23896</guid>
		<description>I am at the opposite end of the spectrum from Bob.  Please remember the fortunate life that I had and reminisce about the good times that we shared.

My father&#039;s funeral was full of joy for our family.  His (and our) suffering was finally over.  His service was one with laughter and shared memories, not the usual LDS service.  And yes, I still miss him terribly after more than 13 years.

Just in the last week I have made my own wishes known, to have my ashes spread in the Snake River that flows to the Pacific Ocean.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am at the opposite end of the spectrum from Bob.  Please remember the fortunate life that I had and reminisce about the good times that we shared.</p>
<p>My father&#8217;s funeral was full of joy for our family.  His (and our) suffering was finally over.  His service was one with laughter and shared memories, not the usual LDS service.  And yes, I still miss him terribly after more than 13 years.</p>
<p>Just in the last week I have made my own wishes known, to have my ashes spread in the Snake River that flows to the Pacific Ocean.</p>
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		<title>By: Bob</title>
		<link>http://www.mindonfire.com/2009/06/23/acknowledging-death-in-death/comment-page-1/#comment-23895</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Jun 2009 22:22:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mindonfire.com/2009/06/23/acknowledging-death-in-death/#comment-23895</guid>
		<description>Jane,
I too am bothered at funerals. It’s been a long time since I went up to a coffin to view the body..not the memory I want.
 I am also bothered by the lightness some wish to display. I feel I should be sadden and mournful at the end of a life. I don’t feel like some good laughing, or joy. There will be a time for that. A time for hope will come later.. this time is for a sad goodbye.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jane,<br />
I too am bothered at funerals. It’s been a long time since I went up to a coffin to view the body..not the memory I want.<br />
 I am also bothered by the lightness some wish to display. I feel I should be sadden and mournful at the end of a life. I don’t feel like some good laughing, or joy. There will be a time for that. A time for hope will come later.. this time is for a sad goodbye.</p>
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		<title>By: Lessie</title>
		<link>http://www.mindonfire.com/2009/06/23/acknowledging-death-in-death/comment-page-1/#comment-23894</link>
		<dc:creator>Lessie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Jun 2009 22:16:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mindonfire.com/2009/06/23/acknowledging-death-in-death/#comment-23894</guid>
		<description>I had similar issues with my mom&#039;s body. When she died, her hair was gone, her mouth was hanging open, her false teeth had been taken out. But by the time the funeral rolled around, there she was, wig on, teeth back in and makeup on. It was so surreal, and not really comforting to me in anyway. That was no longer my mother, it was just a body. Whatever made my mom human was long since gone. I wrote a lot about it on my blog at the time.

I wish we as a society could be more accepting of the death aspects of our existence as well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I had similar issues with my mom&#8217;s body. When she died, her hair was gone, her mouth was hanging open, her false teeth had been taken out. But by the time the funeral rolled around, there she was, wig on, teeth back in and makeup on. It was so surreal, and not really comforting to me in anyway. That was no longer my mother, it was just a body. Whatever made my mom human was long since gone. I wrote a lot about it on my blog at the time.</p>
<p>I wish we as a society could be more accepting of the death aspects of our existence as well.</p>
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