I’ve loved being here, and talking with and learning from all of you, especially John and you, xJane. As non-theists, no matter what religion we come from, we understand each other, and that’s a beautiful thing.

Kalola @23: I’ve been thinking about this & how short-sighted (that’s when I’m being charitable) it was to tell a blogger who, in the past, has been outspoken about temple stuff about some heavy temple shit that’s about to go down involving said blogger. Didn’t they get that this would be blogged about? You’d think that a smart member of the Church elite would get that John’s post would likely blow over, that he has a fairly small community of readers, and that making waves is only going to increase his hits and possibly even his readership. I would not be surprised if this just sort of goes away. Although I would also not be surprised if they really are stupid enough to go through with it.

The bloggernacle has been very helpful to me in finding a new community and support while losing a lifelong community that now ignores me.

This explanation makes a lot of sense to me. I know that there are areas in my own life that I approach using reason, and areas that I approach using emotion, and areas that blend the two.

Your decision on how to address your own experience in the church (as a matter of storytelling and community, rather than analytical) seems entirely reasonable. (Err, did I just analyze it? Damn.)

So, I’m happy to listen in on your church services here; thanks for the invite; and, there are going to be donuts after the service, right?

Hugs to you, bro.

(was going to say a whole lot more, but that’ll do.)

(now let’s see if I can get this past CAPTCHA)

I was just wondering, are you familiar with an on-line booklet titled “TEMPLE BOOK?” I don’t remember when and where I came across it. This is a quote from the INTRODUCTION: “Therefore, this book is a discussion of material already available to the public at large. Many members will be shocked to learn that their endowment is not really secret. … However, the truths themselves are actually VERY SECRET because they are hidden by the symbolism through which they are revealed.” “Secret?” “Sacred?” Take your pick.

I have a PDF version of the booklet if you (or anyone else) is interested.

Craig, I’m continually amazed at how much our experiences have in common. You said:

And it has helped me immensely to talk with you all here (and elsewhere) and hear about your own similar experiences. To know that I wasn’t the only one who felt violated in so many ways, has been a great help to me.

If Church leaders are reading this, I hope you’ll pay heed to Craig’s words. This is why we go public with our experiences, because otherwise we would feel isolated and aberrant. The web gives us a voice, it gives us community, and it proves that we’re not alone. Craig, I’m as buoyed by you as you are by me. Thank you.

And I’m very sorry about all the abuse you had to endure. I’m glad that you’re out of that trap.

Kalola, thank you. I hope you’re right, and this all blows over. I love the images on your blog, btw!

I remember very, very vividly how I felt going through the temple for the first time with my parents and half by parents’ branch in attendance. I never actually really wanted to go through the temple. I didn’t really want to go on a mission. But I never felt that I really had a choice. It was what I HAD to do, what was expected of me. Every week for months before I sent in my mission papers I was pestered by members who asked when I was going to go on my mission. They didn’t ask whether I wanted to, whether I was ready, whether it was even right for me, they simply said, “when are you going?” – which means, “you’re going.” There was never any doubt allowed or expressed as to whether I would acquiesce to being baptised at 8 (and be forced into making promises that NO one is ready to make), to accepting the priesthood at 12 and at 18, to going on a mission and going to the temple and making even more promises that I was force into, and didn’t choose of my own free will.

When one is raised and indoctrinated in an extremely authoritarian version of Mormonism as I was, I don’t believe that even many adults are psychologically able to make rational decisions and enter into any sort of oath or “contract” with the church.

The only thing my parents told me about the ceremony beforehand was that I would be from then on wearing the temple garments, and that I would be receiving a “new name”. That’s all they told me. Once in the temple I was nervous and freaked-out as hell, and if I had felt that I had any choice, I would never have gone through with it. But I didn’t have a choice – or at least that’s what it felt like.

The only time you’re given the opportunity to leave is before they’ve told you anything about what’s going to happen. They don’t tell you what you’re going to promise to do until it’s too late and you’re forced to go through with it. I felt incredibly violated by that, and every time I went through after that. I hated every single time going to the temple, and only went through 13 times before I left the church – all within 26 months, 24 of which were my mission.

I feel that my basic human rights were violated by the church through my (unwitting) parents and by the church directly on too many occasions to count. There were numerous instances and patters of coercion and other aspects of authoritarianism that resulted in rather extreme emotional abuse.

That was my experience in Mormonism. Not the whole experience obviously, but the experience regarding the making of “covenants” and “oaths” and promises that I was completely coerced into and threatened with extreme punishments if I were to ever renege on those coerced promises. If that’s not psychological abuse, then I don’t know what is.

I don’t understand how anyone can say that anyone has an obligation to a promise that is extracted in that sort of environment, under duress, coercion, and threat of harm. Some obviously don’t feel the same about their own experience in Mormonism, and I’m happy for them that they don’t, but that doesn’t mean my experience was valid and true for me, or for John, or any of the other people who’ve gone thorough anything like this.

And it has helped me immensely to talk with you all here (and elsewhere) and hear about your own similar experiences. To know that I wasn’t the only one who felt violated in so many ways, has been a great help to me.

I like going into theoretical spaces as well, but I’m making a very strategic decision, in this space where I have some control over the discussion, to not go there on this topic at this time precisely because I *can’t* separate the personal and think about all of this from a purely objective place. This may be my own emotional immaturity at play , but I just don’t have the time/strength/energy to handle a full rational debate, so I’m establishing the perimeter early.

I tend to want to go to the theoretical place because personal narratives feel atomizing to me–if I’m just telling “my” truth, and others are telling theirs, we’re all isolated in some ways, and limited to a sort of content-neutral emotional response, which feels unsatisfying to me. Possibly because I’m the emotionally-stunted child of a physicist

I believe the Church has a right, and a reason, to ex- you, if they choose to do so. But I also wonder if they are choosing you to make a statement. The internet is a big anonymous world and the Mormon segment of it is ballooning. The lines between ex-, post-, active, inactive, questioning, cafeteria, TBM and in-name-only are becoming more blurred all the time as individuals from across the Mormon spectrum come together in this unique way to share ideas, information and experiences. The Church must take notice of this. And perhaps leaders chose you, John, because you are one of the few talented commentators who straddles the line while being very public about his name, family, occupation and residence. You are an easy target if the Church wants to send a message. All the better if you blog everything that happens during this process. You’ll serve as an excellent warning.

Just a little conspiracy theorizing.

By the way, even though we’ve only met once, I consider you a (gasp) real-life friend.

Done.

I know we probably only have a Kevin Bacon like connection, but I often enjoy this blog, even if I’m not the intended audience. Like you, I enjoy reading subjective, personal experience, especially if it is told well with some humility. I really enjoy trying to see things from others’ perspectives.