also, this is entertaining

and finally, Ifill responds to the SNL video with some salient points about spin by both parties to the moderated stump speech “debate” & an admission that Queen Latifah is awesome!

I think they both got a pass on gay rights. I was offended by both Biden’s and Palin’s responses, but with Palin it was more expected.

Biden tried to pretend that he and Obama oppose gay marriage out of some desire to protect religions’ right to define marriage as they wish. That’s incredibly deceitful and just plain false.

The fact that the government sanctions heterosexual marriage and refuses to sanction homosexual marriage has nothing at all to do with religion, and both Obama and Biden know it. They know that giving the right to marry to all people would not affect a religion’s right to define marriage how ever it wants. The government legally needs to apply the same word to both straight and gay unions, whatever that word is if there is going to be equality.

Whilst Obama’s position is more pro-gay than McCain’s, his position still does not include total equality, and that is unacceptable.

I do understand that many people would not vote for him if he supported gay marriage, perhaps enough to jeopardise his chance at winning. Nevertheless, I am very disappointed that even Obama refuses to support total equality for GLBTQ people.

And a part that I missed (it was too far in and I had started tuning them out), a great segment from Biden, followed with Palin’s too-cheery and blithe ignoring of his points:

Oh, and G—you’re totally right.

Carry on.

I was also blown away by the “I’m not going to actually answer your questions” line. Biden should have said, “Then why are we bothering with a debate?” and gone home.

I think that Biden briefly choking up when talking about his family was touching, and is the sort of thing that gets remembered positively by voters. It’s a “he’s one of us” moment that is helpful to counteract Palin, whose entire schtick is essentially “I’m one of you.”

I’d seen a couple of articles which quoted other people who have debated Palin in the past, and they all said that she tended to stick to “glittering generalities” and not offer much substance. I think that’s definitely what she did last night. She didn’t really *answer* any of the questions. I’m rather torqued that Gwen Ifill didn’t call her out on it.

(And as Matthew Shepard said over at Defective Yeti, “Protip: If you refer to yourself as “tolerant” of gays, you are probably not.”)

Overall, I’d call it a win for Biden. Palin showed that she’s capable of delivering a prepared script, but that didn’t make her appear any more ready to lead the country. Biden mostly wasn’t as personable as little ol’ Sarah, but he showed that he had a strong command of the facts and I think he did a fairly good job of tying McCain tightly to Bush.

Palin might get a little bit of a bump from her base when they’re reassured that she can string two sentences together, but I don’t think she wowed the undecided voters. So the debate wasn’t really a blowout either way, but I don’t think it’ll help McCain a whole lot.

she’s got a great smile too, and a real knack with saying a whole lot of nothing but making it sound good.

I’ll admit my bias, though: Biden was my first choice for president, and I think he absolutely kicks ass in debates.

I’m torn: her responses are coherent (which blows me away) if not on point, but she has a winning demeanor—she looks in the camera, which I liked from Obama and definitely has a down-homey, aw-shucks attitude that I think will appeal to a lot of people. Although, she winked at me early on & now I’m scared…

Biden doesn’t seem to know what to do with his eyes while she’s talking—and he does a lot of talking to Ifill rather than Palin.

Palin really pushed the “maverick” angle, and entertainingly only referred to Obama as “Barack Obama”, never with a “Senator” in front of it, but called McCain “Senator McCain”.

I may not answer the questions the way that either the moderator or you want to hear, but I’m going to talk straight to the American people.

At least Palin admits that she doesn’t want to participate in a debate but in a stump speech filled with talking points and sound bites.

She has a smile pasted on her lips which distresses me. These are problems facing the country that are serious and I don’t want someone who can just grin and bear it—I want someone who can confront it. She definitely has a vaseline-smile going on

Biden’s flesh is looking rather taut—he’s had work done recently…

DH is creeped out by her smile, too, and I quote, “Okay, Smiley McSmilington!”

How long have I been at this, like five weeks?

Again, glad she’s being honest about her lack of experience. Unfortunately, I think this is going to go down as “honesty”, not as “lack of experience”.

Biden is certainly being very gentlemanly. It is a hard line to walk—we know she can’t handle questions she’s not prepared for, but he’s definitely being “nice” to her.

Conservation!!! I’m always impressed when Republicans endorse conservation.
Tolerant!!! She’s tolerant with a diverse family—which of her family members is gay, again?

Palin’s notes (she keeps looking down to her podium) are well-informed and she uses her sound bites well.

There’s a lot of “god love” going on here: both of them have said, “god love [him/them]“. Is that folksy and small-town-valuesy?

DH (watching Biden): Hassan chop! *makes chopping motion*
We did a lot of making fun of McCain, too, making “vvvt! vvvvvvt!” noises when it appeared that he had fused elbows.

“Diplomacy is very important. [...] Diplomacy is hard work by serious people.” I don’t know why, but when she says this, it sounds like this is news to us: guess what! Diplomacy’s something that ambassadors do, didja know that, little boy? Didja? I really feel like she’s talking down to me—maybe she’s just talking at her level…

“Hezzzzzbolah!” – Biden
“nuculer” – Palin

Awww shucks, I just don’t understand you politicians, I’m such a Washington outsider and don’t understand how you operate…well, maybe you shouldn’t be VP!

DH (at 1:11 of 2:00): Is it over yet?
Me: I think they’re still talking…

It is definitely more boring than the last time (and a lot more god…wtf?! It’s okay for VPs to be effusively religious since those angry atheists only get up in arms about the presidential candidates?)…

I think it’s interesting that Palin thinks that a debate that with a moderator occasionally asking a question counts as being “mediated” by the [liberal] media. I wonder what forum she would be happier with? Certainly not one where she’s the only one answering questions. Also? Really freaked out by the “freedom” speech; freedom may indeed be something that we need to fight for, but I see my freedoms being whittled away by the Republicans, not the Democrats.