I went on the record this afternoon (via twitter) that I thought that Palin would not perform too poorly tonight; the Republicans shrewdly negotiated the 90 second short response format to cover Palin’s inability to respond substantively under even minimally persistent questioning. I only caught the last half of the debate, and she seemed to perform with confidence, given the low bar she set for herself through the Couric interviews.
Even Biden came across as fairly likeable. He had this annoying habit of scratching his face with one finger whenever Palin had the floor, and he didn’t fall into high-brow lecturing too often (which appeals to me, but probably not to the remaining undecided voters). I didn’t realize this before tonight, but he has a winning smile. There’s a lot of great dental work on the Obama-Biden ticket (I think McCain only grin-grimaces with his bottom teeth).
Substantively, Biden’s detailed responses contrasted markedly with Palin’s repetitive, broad rhetoric. Political fact-checkers will thank debaters like Biden for their jobs; Palin gave them little to verify one way or another. Another huge, Huge, HUGE difference: when asked in various ways how he might disagree with Obama, Biden stuck to a very humble message–that he was there to serve Obama, and were something horrible were to happen to the president, Biden’s administration would carry on with all of Obama’s initiatives. Palin, responding to a different question about the vice-presidency, is ready to expand the powers of the Veep beyond the scary Cheney levels its obtained. Biden unequivocally said that Cheney is the most dangerous VP in the history of the U.S., and that the legislative power of that office is limited solely to breaking ties in the Senate (I think he even referenced “Article 1, Section 3″ of the U.S. Constitution that strictly limits the legislative authority of the Veep–does anyone here believe that Governor Palin has taken the time to read and understand the same?).
Those are my primary impressions. This was my first real exposure to the live Senator Biden, and while he doesn’t excite me, he strikes me as reasonably competent. I’m not going to make this a comprehensive overview of the debate–what impressions did you all have? Are there any performative or substantive issues that stood out to you?
12 responses so far ↓
1 xJane // Oct 2, 2008 at 8:35 pm
While watching the debate (hooray, TiVo! It allows me to pause and fact-check. Also to rewind and laugh.):
I’m torn: her responses are coherent (which blows me away) if not on point, but she has a winning demeanor—she looks in the camera, which I liked from Obama and definitely has a down-homey, aw-shucks attitude that I think will appeal to a lot of people. Although, she winked at me early on & now I’m scared…
Biden doesn’t seem to know what to do with his eyes while she’s talking—and he does a lot of talking to Ifill rather than Palin.
Palin really pushed the “maverick” angle, and entertainingly only referred to Obama as “Barack Obama”, never with a “Senator” in front of it, but called McCain “Senator McCain”.
At least Palin admits that she doesn’t want to participate in a debate but in a stump speech filled with talking points and sound bites.
She has a smile pasted on her lips which distresses me. These are problems facing the country that are serious and I don’t want someone who can just grin and bear it—I want someone who can confront it. She definitely has a vaseline-smile going on
Biden’s flesh is looking rather taut—he’s had work done recently…
DH is creeped out by her smile, too, and I quote, “Okay, Smiley McSmilington!”
Again, glad she’s being honest about her lack of experience. Unfortunately, I think this is going to go down as “honesty”, not as “lack of experience”.
Biden is certainly being very gentlemanly. It is a hard line to walk—we know she can’t handle questions she’s not prepared for, but he’s definitely being “nice” to her.
Conservation!!! I’m always impressed when Republicans endorse conservation.
Tolerant!!! She’s tolerant with a diverse family—which of her family members is gay, again?
Palin’s notes (she keeps looking down to her podium) are well-informed and she uses her sound bites well.
There’s a lot of “god love” going on here: both of them have said, “god love [him/them]”. Is that folksy and small-town-valuesy?
DH (watching Biden): Hassan chop! *makes chopping motion*
We did a lot of making fun of McCain, too, making “vvvt! vvvvvvt!” noises when it appeared that he had fused elbows.
“Diplomacy is very important. […] Diplomacy is hard work by serious people.” I don’t know why, but when she says this, it sounds like this is news to us: guess what! Diplomacy’s something that ambassadors do, didja know that, little boy? Didja? I really feel like she’s talking down to me—maybe she’s just talking at her level…
“Hezzzzzbolah!” - Biden
“nuculer” - Palin
Awww shucks, I just don’t understand you politicians, I’m such a Washington outsider and don’t understand how you operate…well, maybe you shouldn’t be VP!
DH (at 1:11 of 2:00): Is it over yet?
Me: I think they’re still talking…
It is definitely more boring than the last time (and a lot more god…wtf?! It’s okay for VPs to be effusively religious since those angry atheists only get up in arms about the presidential candidates?)…
I think it’s interesting that Palin thinks that a debate that with a moderator occasionally asking a question counts as being “mediated” by the [liberal] media. I wonder what forum she would be happier with? Certainly not one where she’s the only one answering questions. Also? Really freaked out by the “freedom” speech; freedom may indeed be something that we need to fight for, but I see my freedoms being whittled away by the Republicans, not the Democrats.
2 Amber // Oct 2, 2008 at 8:55 pm
I was bothered that I didn’t feel like she answered a single question as asked, and I was really bothered when she said something about “going back to the thing about the taxes” at the beginning, when Biden hadn’t said anything about taxes (that I gathered). She looked to me like she had prepared answers to questions and was going to give those answers whether they were the questions asked, or not. But what I dislike most about Palin (well, other than her politics) is the way that she gets condescending and sarcastic (which commentators are calling “folksy”). I think she is a mean person. Not a stupid person, like some people are saying, but a mean one. (I see her as Bush, but without the family money.)
I’ll admit my bias, though: Biden was my first choice for president, and I think he absolutely kicks ass in debates.
3 G // Oct 2, 2008 at 9:44 pm
he does have a winning smile, doesn’t he?
and he used it generously with palin (this was so much more of a civil debate than the pres one.)
she’s got a great smile too, and a real knack with saying a whole lot of nothing but making it sound good.
4 Cobwebs // Oct 3, 2008 at 4:57 am
I agree with Amber; it seemed as though Palin had a bunch of prepared answers and didn’t know what to do if she got off the script.
I was also blown away by the “I’m not going to actually answer your questions” line. Biden should have said, “Then why are we bothering with a debate?” and gone home.
I think that Biden briefly choking up when talking about his family was touching, and is the sort of thing that gets remembered positively by voters. It’s a “he’s one of us” moment that is helpful to counteract Palin, whose entire schtick is essentially “I’m one of you.”
I’d seen a couple of articles which quoted other people who have debated Palin in the past, and they all said that she tended to stick to “glittering generalities” and not offer much substance. I think that’s definitely what she did last night. She didn’t really *answer* any of the questions. I’m rather torqued that Gwen Ifill didn’t call her out on it.
(And as Matthew Shepard said over at Defective Yeti, “Protip: If you refer to yourself as “tolerant” of gays, you are probably not.”)
Overall, I’d call it a win for Biden. Palin showed that she’s capable of delivering a prepared script, but that didn’t make her appear any more ready to lead the country. Biden mostly wasn’t as personable as little ol’ Sarah, but he showed that he had a strong command of the facts and I think he did a fairly good job of tying McCain tightly to Bush.
Palin might get a little bit of a bump from her base when they’re reassured that she can string two sentences together, but I don’t think she wowed the undecided voters. So the debate wasn’t really a blowout either way, but I don’t think it’ll help McCain a whole lot.
5 Cobwebs // Oct 3, 2008 at 4:59 am
Nuts. That should have been Matthew Baldwin, not Shepard.
Carry on.
6 G // Oct 3, 2008 at 6:37 am
and she was sooooo anxiously waiting for the chance to use this line “ya know, Joe, that just reminds me what an Washington outsider I am…” [paraphrase]
7 xJane // Oct 3, 2008 at 12:53 pm
When I saw this, I couldn’t even laugh, because it was too true.
And a part that I missed (it was too far in and I had started tuning them out), a great segment from Biden, followed with Palin’s too-cheery and blithe ignoring of his points:
Oh, and G—you’re totally right.
8 Craig // Oct 3, 2008 at 1:55 pm
I think Biden clearly won the debate, but the fact that Palin didn’t crash and burn as many (me including) expected her to, may have made it seem as if she did better than she actually did. I totally expected her to evade the questions and stick to talking points, which she did, and I expected Biden to actually address the issues, which he did, but not as thoroughly as I would have liked.
I think they both got a pass on gay rights. I was offended by both Biden’s and Palin’s responses, but with Palin it was more expected.
Biden tried to pretend that he and Obama oppose gay marriage out of some desire to protect religions’ right to define marriage as they wish. That’s incredibly deceitful and just plain false.
The fact that the government sanctions heterosexual marriage and refuses to sanction homosexual marriage has nothing at all to do with religion, and both Obama and Biden know it. They know that giving the right to marry to all people would not affect a religion’s right to define marriage how ever it wants. The government legally needs to apply the same word to both straight and gay unions, whatever that word is if there is going to be equality.
Whilst Obama’s position is more pro-gay than McCain’s, his position still does not include total equality, and that is unacceptable.
I do understand that many people would not vote for him if he supported gay marriage, perhaps enough to jeopardise his chance at winning. Nevertheless, I am very disappointed that even Obama refuses to support total equality for GLBTQ people.
9 Amber // Oct 3, 2008 at 6:36 pm
I completely agree with Craig, and in fact I came back to that post just to add that point. I was extremely disappointed with that, and I don’t believe that Biden was even being honest when he said it (he’s referred to gay marriage as “inevitable” and I don’t think he’s the kind of person to think he can stand in the path of inevitability, nor do I think that he wants to). I understand why he said it, and perhaps he needed to, but I would have been happier to see a candidate who really believes in civil rights and equality enough to stand up for it. Oh well.
10 Liz (a.k.a. Belva Jr.) // Oct 6, 2008 at 10:42 am
I was disappointed that Palin didn’t make more of an ass out of herself, that she sounded semi-intelligent. It will only serve to enhance her popularity with the folks in this country who lack just as much (or more) substance as she . . . but I am relieved that Biden didn’t come across as a liberal know-it-all. There may be hope yet that our country can be brought back from the brink of Bush.
11 xJane // Oct 6, 2008 at 2:41 pm
I have to admit that I was freaked out by Palin’s not-making-an-ass-of-herself. She was far better than I anticipated and that freaked me out. If people only get to see her on that night, it was not a good night for the Dems. (Although the SNL rehash, including the moderator saying that if Palin doesn’t cry it should be counted as a “win” for her, was totally rawesome.)
12 xJane // Oct 6, 2008 at 7:44 pm
damn but this video is hard to find!
also, this is entertaining
and finally, Ifill responds to the SNL video with some salient points about spin by both parties to the
moderated stump speech“debate” & an admission that Queen Latifah is awesome!Leave a Comment