Yesterday was a red-letter day for flirt-with-the-geek-chick: I turned down two guys (one asked me to a D&D tournament, which was rather endearing, actually). But what really weirded me out was “You should check out our church!” This was, obviously, not a come-on…at least not a relationship come-on. I later told a co-worker, the only one I know to be an atheist, how uncomfortable invitations like that make me feel. I further allowed how I don’t like a parting “God bless you”, which I often get. Maybe iPods and iPhones really do inspire diestic devotion, but most often I’m delivering Last Rites for them, so I’m not entirely certain that these blessings are related to what I do (versus how the customer thinks).
“I try to accept it in the spirit in which it is given,” I told him, “but the assumption still annoys me.”
“I’m pretty upfront about it. I just tell them, ‘Oh, no thank you, I’m an atheist.’” He responded, after a commiserating body gesture, “But it’s hard sometimes, because that’s not really something that it’s acceptable to be.”
We were still on the floor, so that was the extent of our conversation, but it resonated with me for a few reasons. First, because I sometimes wish I could be that upfront, although I don’t feel that an invitation to a church would be rebuffed by such a response. Just as my other co-worker, he of the giant crosses (which he has stopped wearing, thankfully) wears his beliefs on his…well, technically on his chest but metaphorically on his sleeve, I wish that I could wear my beliefs more loudly. Perhaps it’s just proof that, underneath all our belief systems, we’re all human, and that we shouldn’t get caught up in this stuff since it’s not important. Unless it’s oppressing others, of course.
The second reason that it stuck with me is this: I left out some pieces of the story above. When I told him that invitations to churches made me feel uncomfortable, I leaned over the bar in his direction, and lowered my voice conspiratorially. When he responded, he spoke at a normal volume, getting slightly louder for emphasis when he said, “I’m an atheist”. He then lowered his voice when he allowed that this was hard. The reason this is important is that when he said, “I’m an atheist,” I actually started & looked behind me, as though there might be, I don’t know the pope?, standing there, hearing & judging. “Shhh!” I thought “Someone might hear you!” His allowance for how hard it is to admit this might have been because he noticed it, or maybe the quieter volume of that comment was. I kinda hope he didn’t notice it at all, but it underlines for me the fact that, at least in some situations, I’m still embarrassed to be an atheist.
10 responses so far ↓
1 catBonny // Apr 10, 2008 at 7:48 am
Sometimes I feel like when people invite me to church I’d rather not rebuff them in such an upfront manner because it opens up a whole can of worms that I really don’t want to get into. I mean, if someone if inviting you to church you might make the assumption that they are somewhat evangelical or devoted and therefore you proclaiming your lack of faith could just start an argument or debate with them, and maybe I personally am just not up for debate at this time.
My boyfriend was recently temping at a consulting firm where he boss invited him to his church on about 8 occassions. I told him I thought that was completely inappropriate and unacceptable, but he said he didn’t think it was a huge deal.
I can see where it’s hard to just be upfront being an athiest- maybe I just feel insecure enough in my lack of belief that I don’t want to get into it with any reandom stranger that tries to invite me to church. Maybe instead of smiling and saying no thanks I should invite them to the Quaker meeting to worship among the Athiests and people of many different belief systems, but I am not sure.
Also I think the D & D invite is the cutest thing ever.
2 Elaine // Apr 10, 2008 at 8:28 am
If I’m in a good mood, I’ll let something like an inviation to a church slide with a “No thanks, I’m really not interested.” If I’m not in a good mood I will allow that I really don’t do church. Other than that, I don’t get into it because, I guess, I really don’t consider it any of a stranger’s business what my relationship to deity is.
I don’t really care that they know how I feel about deity, I suppose. I discuss it enough on the ‘net and with people I know IRL. I just have this thing about strangers and what is their business and what isn’t.
If I’m in a really bad mood and someone gives me a “God bless you”, I have been known to ask, “Oh, did someone sneeze?” Bad manners on my part, probably, but sometimes that just bothers the crap out of me. My manners get even worse when someone starts to pray over me in public…and yes, that’s happened before. Sometimes that gets them a lecture on boundaries and the respect thereof.
3 Tom // Apr 10, 2008 at 10:46 am
Hm. Regarding the idea that it’s somehow inappropriate to “rebuff” such an invitation with the declaration that one is an atheist, I respond with a rhetorical question: Would it be considered improper to respond with a declaration that one is a Jew, Muslim, Hindu, or Buddhist?
There is a stigma attached to atheism that prevents us from participating in social interactions in the same way that the religious do. This is the thing to be recognized.
Ah, well.
And as to the D&D thing, if I had only known that my rpg hobby could be an in with the cute, geeky girl, then my life would be completely different. *sigh* Now I just need to *find* a cute, geeky girl.
4 xJane // Apr 10, 2008 at 7:37 pm
glad I’m not the only one :-p Today I felt a little bolder: the guy who asked me if I wanted to sign a petition to keep marriage between a man & a woman got the response, “actually, I’d be more interested in signing the opposite petition” which my boss thought was an awesome answer
I totally agree that a boss inviting a subordinate to church is completely out of line! I went to a mosque with a coworker who I suppose was technically my superior, but I expressed interest…
I love the sneeze response, Elaine: although I don’t even say “bless you” then, I am okay with people saying it. (I say “gesudheit”, but with no trace of it being an actual german word…)
When you talked about people praying over you in public (wow, that’s weird, how often does that happen?!) I recalled a woman who was talking to me in the library & asked me for the second time what my name was; she closed her eyes and said, “I will not confess that I’m having a ’senior moment’…I will confess with my mouth that I have a wonderful memory…” and went on, ending with “In Jesus’ name, amen”. That was an odd experience!
Tom: You’re absolutely right! There should be no stigma against saying you’re an atheist, any more than saying you’re Buddhist. But, given the option, I’d probably still pretend to be Buddhist. And, just for the record: D&D is cute, LARPing? Still weird.
5 Elaine // Apr 10, 2008 at 8:33 pm
About the praying in public…that’s happened to me (well, us…my mother and I) several times in restaurants. I think it has something to do with my mother. She’s elderly and frail-looking. Well, she is pretty frail at this point, but she’s looked it for longer than she has been so. People will come and tell her how cute she is (I confess…she is cute) and then ask if they can pray for her, or for us.
The real problem with it is that these people will, if they even ask, go ahead on and start praying before I can say ‘yea’ or ‘nay’. And, you know, once they’re in the middle of the thing, even heathen old me has a tough time saying, “Hey, hold it, stop. I didn’t tell you you could do that.”
We’ve actually had to almost completely stop going to one restaurant because this old guy who goes in there all the time will just not leave it alone. I don’t know what his story is, but he’s just…creepy. *shudder*
I like your response about the petition. We were out shopping and there was someone circulating that one in front of one of the stores we went in, with a big sign that said something about “God’s idea of marriage: 1 man and 1 woman” (probably not the exact wording, but close enough). I couldn’t stop myself from making a louder-than-strictly-necessary comment to my mother about arrogant people who think they know the mind of God as we walked by.
6 notentirely // Apr 11, 2008 at 9:07 am
Totally understand where you’re coming from. For me, I won’t shy away from stating that I’m an atheist if it comes up in conversation.
In this particular situation I may not have mentioned it – I suppose it would require the guy to have asked “why won’t you check out our church?” or some-such in order for me to feel it was necessary to state my views. I don’t come out and say it unless it’s apropos to the conversation.
But I do firmly and often state that I am an atheist. I do this because I believe it is important that others, non-atheists, get to know who atheists are – namely, me. I’m not a blood-drinking satan-worshipping baby-killer. I’m their kindly neighbor, their friendly coworker, I’m the lady who let them cut in line at the grocery store and the one who held the door open for them when their arms were full. I’m normal. And that’s important for folks to realize.
Each time I am open as an atheist I feel I create the possibility of understanding and clarity. I also believe that my being open today makes it that much easier for the next atheist tomorrow.
So I won’t be seen in a “Kiss me! I’m an Atheist” t-shirt anytime soon (tho, that’s a cool idea!), but I won’t hide this important aspect of who I am. For me, at the end of the day, silence about my atheism is equal to tacit acceptance of shame or guilt. I hope to erase that stigma, one open conversation at a time.
7 Elaine // Apr 11, 2008 at 3:56 pm
It happened again today.
Well, not actual praying…but still. I took my mother to lunch after I got finished with work, and practically as soon as we sat down, this guy came over and started asking personal questions about my mother’s health. She has a tumor on her forehead, and it is covered, but very noticeable.
After he asked once, I explained to him that that was not something we talk to strangers about. That didn’t stop him, but we tried to plolitely ignore him. That didn’t stop him , either, so I rather more forcefully told him that he was violating boundaries. He started to back away then…literally, walking backwards, doing this sort of chant, repeating, “May God bless and heal you”.
Then, when I got up to go get food (it was a buffet restaurant) he started very loudly…he was a couple of tables away from where I was walking…begging for forgiveness. It was really…creepy. I said not to worry about it, but gave the “boundaries” talk again, and he finally left us alone.
Apparently, either my mother or myself (I really think it’s me, because it has happened when I wasn’t with my mother, too) was born with a “religious nut” magnet included. It’s probably a variation on the drunk magnet my father had. It never failed…anyplace he went, if there was someone drunk and looking for someone to commiserate with, they’d gravitate to him.
8 xJane // Apr 16, 2008 at 6:40 am
My cousin was visiting this weekend, (hence my AWOLness) and she purchased a DVD of Jim Gaffigan who is pure awesome. I thought that this was apropos to is particular discussion:
9 John White // Apr 17, 2008 at 12:21 pm
Beyond the Pale is awesome!
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