I taught the older kids’ Firstday School (aka Sunday School) at my Quaker meeting. The class consisted of me, my son (code named GameBoy), and my daughter (CatGirl). I took advantage of the situation and ditched my prepared lesson and began an informal discussion about our encounter thus far with Quakerism.
We took turns going over the core Quaker values (Simplicity, Peace, Integrity, Community, Equality, Sustainability) and what they meant to each us. GameBoy observed that “The values are all tied together, they all interact with and reinforce each other.” He gave the example that when we’re content with what we have (as individuals or as countries), we’re less likely to fight for more.
When we got to Equality, CatGirl said that as a Quaker, “I feel like I don’t have to wait to grow up to make a difference. I can start now.”
We then read some of the queries for this month, which were laden with references to God. We talked about that. CatGirl admitted that she felt that she was an atheist (and that her best friend was an atheist who occasionally sacrificed to the God of Homework). GameBoy felt that he was an agnostic. We talked about what it meant to wait in silence for the inner light/light of Christ/voice of conscience and to share these experiences in a community of Quakers who had a wide range of beliefs and descriptions of God/not-God. We wrapped up with five minutes of silent meditation, assisted by the free Meditation Timer for Mac OS X. (Thanks, xJane!)
Colored as our experiences are by a long history of Mormon doctrinal rigidity, it’s an absolute joy to have an open-ended discussion about God, beliefs and values with my children.
I don’t deny that my own unbelief has influenced the kids, but Jana and I have given them a lot more room to come up with their own conclusions than the LDS environment encouraged. I’ve never taught atheism to them the way we and dozens of LDS volunteers taught Mormonism to them. We have a lot more respect now for their questions and seeking than we ever did as believing Mormons.
If anything, GameBoy and CatGirl’s contentment and devotion to Quaker values has me rethinking my own deliberate distance from the meeting community.
8 responses so far ↓
1 Samuel Skinner // Feb 25, 2008 at 9:02 am
You really can’t teach atheism. “Kids there is no god.” “Anything else?” “…”.
2 wren // Feb 25, 2008 at 11:56 am
I’m really glad you posted this. I’ve been curious about your kids’ experiences with your spiritual journey and changes.
I find CatGirl’s observation about feeling free to make a difference now relatable. One thing I’m felt more free and driven to do since leaving the proverbial lds garden is reach out and contribute more within the community. I feel the lds are exceptional at helping their own. And I believe the relief provided around the world is great too. On the local community level, however, my old stake did very little. They didn’t want to be involved in any joint efforts with other churches unless the were managing it.
Case in point, someone I knew wanted to get a group from the ward and or stake involved in a multi-faith house build Habitat for Humanity was doing. The response was no and it was strongly implied that reason was it being a multi-faith thing. They had no problem, however, working with other churches getting petitions and flyers distributed to pass a state amendment in defense of marriage. Frankly, I wouldn’t have had the time when I was lds to be involved in service to the community.
I’m curious to hear more about your deliberate distance you speak of. What motivates it? Also, what is your relationship with the lds church today, if you feel comfortable sharing that?
Back to your kids, sounds like you and Jana are raising some great minds.
3 Lessie // Feb 25, 2008 at 1:54 pm
I think it’s awesome that you’re able to have these conversations with your kids. Mine are still young and with Theron at least, I spent quite a bit of time indoctrinating him before I left the church. I don’t quite know how to reverse that–to let him know that I’m not certain about much of anything anymore, but that I’ll respect his beliefs.
Like Wren, I’m curious also about your distance from the community. I feel pretty jaded right now as far as institutions go. I’m reluctant to get really involved with any others. I went to a local political meeting this weekend and enjoyed myself thoroughly, but was hesitant to give any money or jump on a volunteer opportunity just yet. Not sure how to overcome my trust issues there, but that’s what it boils down to.
4 John // Feb 25, 2008 at 5:08 pm
Samuel, your comment is true at the most fundamental level. But it doesn’t take into account how embedded and pervasive faith systems can become, socially and cognitively.
Wren, I saw the same control issue with local interfaith projects, though I wonder if this varies from stake to stake. I’m still officially a member, mostly for Jana’s sake, but I will probably take my name off the books at some point.
Lessie, I think that just being open and honest with your children is enough. Jana and I were honest with the things we took issue with, like women and the priesthood, and I was open but not overbearing with my atheism. I answered a lot of questions in this way: well, Mormons believe X. I believe Y. Others may believe Z. I wanted my kids to have a real choice, which most kids raised in the church do not get.
On distance: I can relate to Lessie. When I emotionally divorced from the Church, I threw myself wholeheartedly into the anti-war movement, and was kind of devastated by how little all my efforts achieved. Since we left the Church a couple of years ago, I’ve been very hesitant to devote myself to another community or cause. Also, between family, work, school, writing and blogging, there’s a lot on my plate, and I’m protective of my time.
Even though I’ve sort of put some distance between myself and the formal Friends Meeting, about half of our social network comes from it. We have a handful of wonderful, wonderful friends who are Friends.
And there was a calculated aspect to our move to Quakerism as well: we realized that it would be difficult to remove our family from the considerable social support network that is Mormonism and not have something to replace it. In Quakerism, we had an activist institution we could back without reservation, an emotional and spiritual support network and a deep tradition to replace Mormonism. This was very important because we made our move as a family, and we wanted to help the children to have some measure of security as we went through this major disruption.
5 Lessie // Feb 26, 2008 at 10:09 am
Yes, it’s been hard for me to not have the structure of the church. I was raised on it and didn’t realize what a fundamental part of my life it was until I left. However, because of my wariness towards other institutions, I haven’t branched out to find anything yet (although, after learning about yours and Jana’s move to Quakerism, I looked into that–wouldn’t ya know there aren’t any in Idaho Falls?). For now I’m just trying to figure out what’s really important to me and carefully examine the groups around here to see if there’s anything that I feel could make a significant difference in the community. I just know that I’m missing the involvement but nervous about throwing myself into something again.
6 xJane // Feb 26, 2008 at 4:22 pm
I think this is awesome. Although neither DH nor I ever really want kids, we have discussed how to non-indoctrinate them. (He’s made me promise to put any DVDs I may obtain of Veggie Tales on a tall shelf, where they will not be watched except with his permission & presence.) Having an open dialogue, about anything, with ones parents is priceless. I envy (in a good way) your children that relationship.
Also, I like that they have different (slightly) views and can discuss them rationally. And that CatGirl relates “equality” to her age, rather than to her gender, is quite awesome.
7 John // Feb 26, 2008 at 5:21 pm
xJane, thank you!
Lessie, just a thought:
Idaho Falls UU Church.
One thing that’s nice about liberal congregations of any type is that they tend to be very low pressure. (one reason why they’re bleeding members, however)
8 Elise // Feb 27, 2008 at 8:24 pm
To re-iterate a favor I have already asked for in the past - When Ryan and I are ready to have kids, could you please simply clone one of each of yours’ for us?
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