Comments on: Why Believers shouldn’t be Troubled by Pullman’s Golden Compass http://www.mindonfire.com/2007/12/04/why-believers-shouldnt-be-troubled-by-pullmans-golden-compass/ Religion, SF, and Other Speculative Fictions. Thu, 09 Feb 2012 18:55:49 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3 By: John http://www.mindonfire.com/2007/12/04/why-believers-shouldnt-be-troubled-by-pullmans-golden-compass/comment-page-1/#comment-4632 John Fri, 07 Dec 2007 06:11:59 +0000 http://www.mindonfire.com/2007/12/04/why-believers-shouldnt-be-troubled-by-pullmans-golden-compass/#comment-4632 Nice pick, xJane. I wish I had come up with that. :P Nice pick, xJane. I wish I had come up with that. :P

]]> By: xJane http://www.mindonfire.com/2007/12/04/why-believers-shouldnt-be-troubled-by-pullmans-golden-compass/comment-page-1/#comment-4466 xJane Thu, 06 Dec 2007 16:26:06 +0000 http://www.mindonfire.com/2007/12/04/why-believers-shouldnt-be-troubled-by-pullmans-golden-compass/#comment-4466 to combine a few topics, <a href="http://www.mindonfire.com/2007/12/05/rupert-murdoch-gets-religion/" rel="nofollow">Beliefnet</a> has an article about <a href="http://www.beliefnet.com/gallery/goldencompass.html" rel="nofollow"><b>the Top Ten Spiritual Messages</b></a> to be found in the <a href="http://www.mindonfire.com/2007/11/28/why-im-going-to-see-the-golden-compass-hint-i-was-encouraged-by-bill-donahue/" rel="nofollow">Golden Compass</a> to combine a few topics, Beliefnet has an article about the Top Ten Spiritual Messages to be found in the Golden Compass

]]> By: John http://www.mindonfire.com/2007/12/04/why-believers-shouldnt-be-troubled-by-pullmans-golden-compass/comment-page-1/#comment-4298 John Wed, 05 Dec 2007 05:48:25 +0000 http://www.mindonfire.com/2007/12/04/why-believers-shouldnt-be-troubled-by-pullmans-golden-compass/#comment-4298 Brian: good points, both, though I didn't necessarily read them as Pullman's voice (though they may well be). The witch queen Ruta Skadi, who makes the first point, is not a primary character, and I wasn't entirely sympathetic to her. It would be different to have the speech come from, say, Lee Scorseby or even Serafina Pekala. I have to admit that I tuned out through much of the 3rd book, which has the main conflict with Metatron. I was angry by the end of the second at how the author mistreated (betrayed!) Will, and the third did seem to have its didactic moments. No one wants to be lectured in a fantasy, even when the preaching is to the choir. I still have a sweet spot for Lyra--I find her (and her father, to some extent) compelling. Brian: good points, both, though I didn’t necessarily read them as Pullman’s voice (though they may well be). The witch queen Ruta Skadi, who makes the first point, is not a primary character, and I wasn’t entirely sympathetic to her. It would be different to have the speech come from, say, Lee Scorseby or even Serafina Pekala.

I have to admit that I tuned out through much of the 3rd book, which has the main conflict with Metatron. I was angry by the end of the second at how the author mistreated (betrayed!) Will, and the third did seem to have its didactic moments. No one wants to be lectured in a fantasy, even when the preaching is to the choir.

I still have a sweet spot for Lyra–I find her (and her father, to some extent) compelling.

]]> By: Brian http://www.mindonfire.com/2007/12/04/why-believers-shouldnt-be-troubled-by-pullmans-golden-compass/comment-page-1/#comment-4295 Brian Tue, 04 Dec 2007 23:08:54 +0000 http://www.mindonfire.com/2007/12/04/why-believers-shouldnt-be-troubled-by-pullmans-golden-compass/#comment-4295 Having read the books a few weeks ago, I found a number of disturbing elements. In address of the first point made, I would have to disagree. In the very first book, a character says “Every church is the same: control, destroy, obliterate every good feeling.” And in the final book, an ex nun, whom the books identify as coming from our own world, not a fantasy variant, says "The Christian religion is a very powerful and convincing mistake, that's all." Several such quotes as these have the feeling of the author giving his own soliloquy, but I may be reading too much into it. The second point is, in a way, quite valid. The Authority in the books (or the Metatron, who has become the real power) is clearly not the same being who Christians think of when we address God. Nonetheless, Pullman identifies this Authority as the Christian God, saying his names include the Lord of Hosts, the Father, YHWH, etc. (And why not. To the author, his Authority and the Christian God do share one vital detail: they are both fictional.) I also found myself thinking that it was more a Gnostic God than a Christian God, in keeping with some other gnostic elements to the spirituality. Nonetheless, while, as I say, I find this troubling, I wouldn't go so far as to suggest that it MUST be avoided. I don't think any material should have to be off limits to a youth with a good grounding in their faith and basic critical thinking faculties. (Tune in in about 10 years when my son and daughter are in or near their teens to see if I've changed my mind. "Turn down that noise!") I, personally, was more turned off by the characters. From the petulant, compulsively lying protagonist and her mother, to her adulterous, murdering father, the only main character I got into was Will. Iorek was kind of cool too. The less said about the climax (no pun intended) the better. I would never go so far as to call it a Deus Ex Machina, though, as it was masterfully foreshadowed through all three of the books. I found the in book explanation of the event lacking. It's not really my brand of fantasy (I like the sci fi and the fantasy on my plate not to touch, like peas and potatoes). Other than that, the books were alright. I wouldn't be too hard on them, as they're meant for a younger audience. Having read the books a few weeks ago, I found a number of disturbing elements. In address of the first point made, I would have to disagree. In the very first book, a character says “Every church is the same: control, destroy, obliterate every good feeling.” And in the final book, an ex nun, whom the books identify as coming from our own world, not a fantasy variant, says “The Christian religion is a very powerful and convincing mistake, that’s all.” Several such quotes as these have the feeling of the author giving his own soliloquy, but I may be reading too much into it.

The second point is, in a way, quite valid. The Authority in the books (or the Metatron, who has become the real power) is clearly not the same being who Christians think of when we address God. Nonetheless, Pullman identifies this Authority as the Christian God, saying his names include the Lord of Hosts, the Father, YHWH, etc. (And why not. To the author, his Authority and the Christian God do share one vital detail: they are both fictional.) I also found myself thinking that it was more a Gnostic God than a Christian God, in keeping with some other gnostic elements to the spirituality.

Nonetheless, while, as I say, I find this troubling, I wouldn’t go so far as to suggest that it MUST be avoided. I don’t think any material should have to be off limits to a youth with a good grounding in their faith and basic critical thinking faculties. (Tune in in about 10 years when my son and daughter are in or near their teens to see if I’ve changed my mind. “Turn down that noise!”) I, personally, was more turned off by the characters. From the petulant, compulsively lying protagonist and her mother, to her adulterous, murdering father, the only main character I got into was Will. Iorek was kind of cool too. The less said about the climax (no pun intended) the better. I would never go so far as to call it a Deus Ex Machina, though, as it was masterfully foreshadowed through all three of the books. I found the in book explanation of the event lacking. It’s not really my brand of fantasy (I like the sci fi and the fantasy on my plate not to touch, like peas and potatoes). Other than that, the books were alright. I wouldn’t be too hard on them, as they’re meant for a younger audience.

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