5 responses so far ↓

• 1 Reg // Nov 6, 2006 at 8:24 am

  In thinking about answering this post, I thought, “just speak up”. But that would be a short reply. I came across this at Something Positive

  [...]to my Christian readers: I am sorry. I am sorry many of you do get stereotyped or find yourself having to defend your faith against those who’ve been jaded by the batshit insane. [...] However, I have some awful news for you.

  The problem of being lumped with them won’t go away until you become more vocal.

  People assume most Christians are heavy-handed, pushy, intolerant bigots bent of dominating any other culture or idea and supplanting it with their own whims because, for the most part, the ones who speak up the most ARE heavy-handed, pushy, intolerant bigots bent on dominating any other culture or idea and supplanting it with their own whims. It sucks. It’s horrible. And it’s the what everyone of any faith, political idea, or lifestyle has to deal with. People always focus on the loud minority who ruins everything. And like any other group, the only way you can combat this is making your views and, in this case, your kindness and actual testimony louder than the hateful prattle of those hurting your beliefs.

  We discussed this to some extent at the book group: how, if you speak up, or even do small (silent?) things that are visible, people will notice. “They will know we are Christians by our love” used to be a rallying cry. Unfortunately, it seems to be the opposite in many cases: “They will know we are Christians because we’re rich” is a strange bent on an old hippy religion. “They will know we are environmentalists because we bike” or recycle, or whatever. I’ve tried numerous times to start recycling here in my apartment and it just doesn’t take. So yes, there will be setbacks and failures. But, I started a community herb garden. I don’t buy herbs at the store any more (except cilantro, it’s hard to grow), and people have told me that they’re eating healthier.

  My dictionary calls dogma “incontrovertibly true”. Seeing people outside a dogma proves it is not incontrovertable. For much of my life, I was raised to think everyone in the world was Catholic. And people who weren’t were either misguided or serial killers. Then I moved to a community where the Catholics my parents hung out with was a small percentage of the people I came into contact with. I always say that the best thing my parents ever did was taking me there; that’s where I learned that the dogma I’d always secretly doubted was no longer “incontrovertable”.

  So, that was even longer than I intended, but there we are. My belief is that, to solve the problem, “be vocal”.

• 2 Matt Thurston // Nov 6, 2006 at 10:46 am

  As I said in my comment on the previous thread, if the answer is not “the end of faith,” it must be the end of dogmatism. And I agree with Harris that the onus lies with Religious Moderates who must, as Reg describes above, “speak up.”

  That means that moderate Christians cannot see something like Jesus Camp and say, “Well, different strokes… to each his own.” Moderate Mormons cannot witness ecclesiastical abuse (or whatever), and cover it up. Moderate Muslims certainly have the most difficult task. (Speaking of which, have you seen this woman: http://memritv.org/Search.asp?ACT=S5&P1=11# look for clip #1050)

  Bill Clinton has been spearheading the Clinton Global Initiative. Fortune magazine had a very nice cover story a couple of weeks ago. Clinton’s got a lot of big names (Bill Gates, Warren Buffet, etc.) and mucho dinero behind him. Of all of the ills facing the world, they chose just four to focus on:

  1.) Energy and Climate Change
  2.) Global Health
  3.) Poverty Alleviation
  4.) Mitigating Religious and Ethnic Conflict

  The fact that that fourth issue is now on par with climate, health, and poverty really tells me something. I don’t know if there is any volunteer work one can do via the Clinton Global Initiative, but it might be worth perusing the site: http://www.clintonglobalinitiative.org/NETCOMMUNITY/Page.aspx?&pid=346&srcid=-2

• 3 Watt Mahoun // Nov 6, 2006 at 3:54 pm

  The answer that Harris suggests is that we look at the dogmatic faith that drives others, particularly that which stands in direct opposition to our own, and ask ourselves if we are prepared to pay the price that the logical end of such belief would require. If the answer is ‘no’, then we must be prepared to provide the same justifications and evidences for our own beliefs that we might require of others.

  It’s really just an appeal to the golden rule.

• 4 Jonathan // Nov 6, 2006 at 6:34 pm

  Watt – that’s a great thought! I really agree with the golden rule approach.

  Some humble thoughts about battling dogmatism from within the Christian church:

  For the longest time I have been trying to work out these issues in my own private life. I tend to be introspective (and angry) about dogmatic issues, but over the last 7 years, when I had the opportunity to teach, I have spent a lot of time drawing people towards a more rational approach to Bible literacy and rational Bible interpretation. There are many dangerous mindsets and behaviors that I have been trying to guide people away from:

  - Encourage people to learn how to think and NOT accept everything the pastor says. Do not foster blind faith. Pastors have proven over and over that they are only human and faulty and cannot be relied upon for a person seeking truth. The Bible echoes this healthy skepticism as well.
  - Learn how to read the Bible. It was written to a 2000-4000 year old audience. This matters.
  - The Old Testament laws do NOT apply to 21st century America. America is NOT the new Israel. The Old Testament is a story about God and about what He likes and dislikes, not a normative example for how we should run a country or necessarily how we should behave. The Bible itself says this – via Paul, with great anger towards people trying to shove the old law down Christian’s throats, much less non-Christians!
  - The pre-millennial rapture is a myth that is easily disproved by well-documented evidence; it is dangerous because it completely retards long-term planning or thinking in its adherents.
  - Very few beliefs are black and white. Most should be held tentatively with an open mind towards other perspectives. I often read literature on things I disagree with, such as Atheism and Reformed theology always mining them for truth.

  Some may think that believing that the Bible is true is being dogmatic, but ironically, people in the Bible fought against the ‘religious’ status quo and often were tortured and killed for doing so. It’s been a great breath of ‘anti-religious’ air to me.

  So it seems to me that Bible literacy inside the Christian community (i.e. education) might be one step in the right direction towards eliminating blind religious behavior and thinking. This will hopefully lead towards a closer relationship with God (something I care about) and a spirit of brotherhood with secular humanists or people of other faiths towards seeking the common good of our nation and in the world we live in (something we all care about) because we have so many values in common even if we don’t believe in the same God.

  I may be an idealist, but I think even one person can take small steps that can make a big difference – one that we will never know the extent of. Anyway, just my 2 cents on the subject.

• 5 Elise // Nov 6, 2006 at 9:30 pm

  I don’t have anything profound to add to this discussion. But I’ve really appreciated reading the other posts and replies – thanks for taking the time to write these thoughts down and share them. The ideas expressed here cause me to think and reflect on my own life and strive to be better – which is, in my opinion, the exact antidote to the dogmatism being discussed here.

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