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A Ragtag Band.

Posted by John on August 17th, 2006 at 9:53 pm · 12 Comments

There’s an entertaining post by the newest contributor to the Sunstone Blog, Matt Thurston. He describes his ironic first encounter with a controversial biography of Joseph Smith while serving as a Mormon missionary in Taiwan. He then asks his readers to share their own first encounters with troubling Church history.

Try as I might, I can’t remember when I lost my Church-history-virtue.

I have a hard time relating to my LDS friends when they spin their wheels on Book of Mormon authenticity, post-Manifesto polygamy (i.e. continued practice after the Church officially disavowed it), and Joseph Smith’s problematic character.

For me, uniquely Mormon doctrines are all window dressing on belief in God and Christ.¬† My conversion to Mormonism was significant in that it transformed me from an agnostic to a theist.¬† When my faith and trust in the core eroded, the periphery was of little consequence (except socially). ¬† I don’t want to discount the very real pain and dissonance that my Mormon friends experience.¬† I’m just saying that there is something decidedly un-Mormon about my deconversion.¬† Where many Latter-day Saints wrestle with the Book of Mormon, I struggled with the New Testament.¬† My complaints weren’t with Joseph Smith but with his superiors.¬† I find that I can relate better to post-modern and even atheist Christian theologians (e.g., Tillich, Altizer).¬† They speak to my concerns.

I’m not sure where I’m going with this post.¬† I’m still introspective after Sunstone, and reflective upon the nature and purpose of this blog.¬† I find it heartening that those of you who are kind enough to comment are members of such a diverse group, coming from a variety of religious backgrounds, with eclectic spiritual and rational interests.¬† I’d like to think that we are trying to work out similar problems, and that we have a common respect for the truth.¬† We value spirituality and integrity.¬† We trust, perhaps blindly, in our ability to discover the great answers (or at least to ask the great questions), free from the fetters of dogma and orthodoxy.

It’s hard to give up certainty and security for doubt and questioning.¬† But it’s easier when you are surrounded by a few others like you.¬† Thank you.

Tags: Doubt · Site-related

12 responses so far ↓

  • 1 Caroline T. // Aug 18, 2006 at 7:43 am

    And thank you, John, for creating this blog! Mind On Fire is a great forum to discuss religion. I always look forward to your posts.

    I wish there was more room to discuss our doubts and uncertainties at church. Everyone has doubts, but no one wants to break the ice.

    I’ve always had a problem with strictly celebratory versions of history. Such romanticized histories veer far from the truth and thus create unrealistic archetypes of historical figures. For example, Joseph Smith had many admirable qualities, such as faith, tenacity, and drive; but he also had various negative qualities. He was human, after all, just like the rest of us.

    Ironically, it always strengthens my faith when I learn about the struggles and weaknesses of church leaders. It helps me to realize that even the strongest of the fold are imperfect too.

    No one benefits when certain facts are occluded. I think a lot of Mormons face a crisis of faith when they start learning about the darker sides of LDS history. Such crises are good because they help us to grow, but I know these trials are hard to weather alone. When I faced my own doubts and uncertainties a few months ago, I just wanted to talk to other Mormons who could empathize with my feelings. Thank goodness for blogs and for Sunstone! But I could only wish that I could have addressed my concerns in Sunday School… (Granted, I was attending a BYU student ward at the time. Not a great forum for discussion!)

  • 2 Matt Thurston // Aug 18, 2006 at 9:21 am

    I’ve become very interested in the role community plays in shaping and maintaining our beliefs. With regards to the ladder of spirituality/awareness/faith, Ken Wilber talks about a faith community’s (could be a family, ward, religion, etc.) “average center of gravity, with some of their members falling above, and some below, that center.” The gravitational “pulling up” of those on the ladder below the center of gravity could be a positive force for the individual.

    The opposite is true of those who attempt to climb higher than the community’s center of gravity… all kinds of negative reinforcement (loss of community privileges, withholding of love/friendship, threats/warnings of the temptations of Satan, etc.) awaits the lonely soul who is searching for more. The more fundamental the community, the more at stake for the individual. Many souls lack the courage to break free of the community, to continue the climb up the ladder.

    John said: “It‚Äôs hard to give up certainty and security for doubt and questioning. But it‚Äôs easier when you are surrounded by a few others like you.” I couldn’t agree more. The Internet has done wonders in terms of providing information for people interested in continuing the climb up the spiritual ladder; but it is it’s ability to create new communities of lonely, like-minded seekers that is, in my opinion, the Internet’s greatest legacy. With the Blogs like Mind on Fire, one need not climb the ladder alone.

  • 3 Chris // Aug 18, 2006 at 2:26 pm

    I remember the first time that I really became interested in Church History beyond Sunday School was a missionary. Truman Madsen’s “Joseph Smith the Prophet” set of lectures was my first exposure to anything about Joseph that went beyond the first vision, translation of the Book of Mormon, priesthood restoration, that I taught about while in California.

    One thing that I found interesting was that after listening to those tapes, and learning about his faults and trials, was he was a human being and was perhaps someone that I could relate to. I mean what’s wrong with being human?

    I think that because I saw, and still do see, Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, and even church leaders as inspired men, but still men with all the baggage that goes along with it. This really helped me out when I took a Mormon studies class. Instead of having my faith challenged or doubting, I saw humanity with at times the divine interveining.

    While many in the “Church” struggle with Bushman’s biography, or just the issues that he and other’s raise, I am content with where I am and the pilgrimage that I have chosen.

    It is different for everyone and everyone must handle things differently. But I can sleep well at night knowing that at times the history is inspiring even if people’s halos fall around their neck from time to time.

  • 4 Johnny // Aug 20, 2006 at 7:54 pm

    For me, uniquely Mormon doctrines are all window dressing on belief in God and Christ. My conversion to Mormonism was significant in that it transformed me from an agnostic to a theist. When my faith and trust in the core eroded, the periphery was of little consequence (except socially).

    This is interesting because as you point out it is very different than the questioning process that many mormons follow. After thinking about my own experience i wonder if the issues of theism, christology, and the restoration are so easily separated. For generational mormons their access to these “core” concepts comes part and parcel with the restoration narrative. Although I think these issues are intellectually distinct, i think there might be a difficulty in trying to separate them out when it comes to one’s personal belief. Cause lets face it the search for the “historical Jesus” is no more satisfying than trying to find Nephite artifacts in meso-america. i guess i am trying to say that it would be very difficult for a doubting mormon to say, “i was completely fooled on the JS thing, but i believe in god and jesus no problem.” The mystical experiences that justify the BofM are the same as the ones that justify Jesus as savior. So maybe one reason why these “periphery” issues become significant is because there is not such a strong distinction between the “core” and the “periphery” for many mormons.

    btw, i really find Tillich’s work interesting as well.

  • 5 Johnny // Aug 20, 2006 at 7:56 pm

    It’s hard to give up certainty and security for doubt and questioning. But it’s easier when you are surrounded by a few others like you. Thank you. Рdido

  • 6 Miko // Aug 21, 2006 at 7:22 am

    Has anyone in the Mormon or former/recovering-Morman circle heard about this? I read in the Catholic World Report that certain members of the LDS Church are attempting to use the re-definition of marriage (to include gays and lesbians) to also include polygamy (or polyamory)… I think it’s a bunch of hoo-ha to get good Catholics super-scared. But then, in this world, anything’s possible. I was wondering what anyone closer to this area of spiritual expertise might think.

  • 7 Watt Mahoun // Aug 21, 2006 at 2:53 pm

    Now that’s some sweet meandering. Thanks, John.

    My experience has been similar to yours in that I first questioned the reality of a anthropomorphic god…which of course has it’s epitome in Jesus. And since Mormonism is essentially about reaffirming this type of dogma, my faith in Mormonism fell-away as an immediate consequence. This order of things, however, did not diminish my agony and anger at having been taught to believe without truly questioning and to ‘know’ without the slightest knowledge.

    As for when it began…I think I always had a great amount of doubt as evidenced by my fear of actually investigating. Then some 3-5 years ago a series of experiences with the church shocked and angered me to such a degree that I ceased fearing and started listening to sources of information outside the church. Joining a discussion group and hearing of others’ experiences was huge. Someone in that group recommended Carl Sagan’s “Demon-Haunted World” and the thoughts that flowed from that read were like the Teton dam coming down. The only con-lds material of consequence that I’ve read are Compton’s “In Sacred Loneliness” and Palmer’s “An Insider’s View” which were profoundly but secondarily shocking…and no more surprising than the expected aftershocks after a quake.

    One of the things to fear on the sunny-side of doubt is exile and loneliness. But I can confirm what you write in this post and what Matt Thurston adds in the comments. Friends are all around.

  • 8 David M. // Aug 21, 2006 at 6:51 pm

    Miko,
    I have not heard anything to that effect from within the gates of Mormondom. If anything, from my vantage point, I hear (in unofficial circles, of course) the argument made that a same-sex marriage ban would eliminate a supposed slipery slope that would lead to polygamy and people marrying their cats. (what? really?)

    I would guess that you are correct in your assumption that the allegation that Mormons are seeking to re-define marriage to include polygamy is a way to create fear and incite the faithful troops action. It’s not just Catholics that are exposed to these messages. I recall a few months back that a “defense of marriage” amendment was once again brought before the US Senate just before several key states had primary elections in early June of this year. A get-out-the-vote measure.

  • 9 pilgrimgirl // Aug 22, 2006 at 9:16 pm

    If I remember correctly from a recent Sunstone session that included some fundamentalist Mormons (practicing polygamists), they are hoping that relaxing the definition of marriage to include same-sex couples would also allow polygamists to have legally-sanctioned unions. So this isn’t necessarily coming from the LDS church, but it is from one of our off-shoots.

  • 10 John Dehlin // Aug 23, 2006 at 10:40 am

    I love John and Jana Remy.

    Just had to say it. ;)

    Now please resume your discussion.

  • 11 John // Aug 23, 2006 at 11:13 am

    Master Mahoun, I’m glad that someone else’s experience parallels my own. I had forgotten this until you mentioned it above, but Sagan’s Demon Haunted World was one of the books that I picked up when I first started questioning. That and Broca’s Brain. I think I turned to Carl Sagan because his was wonderful blend of wonder and caution, awe and reason.

    And thanks for casting me into the “Outer Blogness!” :D The company is good there.

  • 12 Master Mahoun // Aug 23, 2006 at 9:38 pm

    And Sagan’s respect for honest belief (even if he doesn’t share the belief) comes across in an subtle way that I found comforting. And you’re so right about the sense of wonder. You read him and realize that the universe makes religious doctrine pale in the awe dept.

    I too am a great fan of Outer Blogness…it’s a savory stew of souls.

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